|
|
|
|
|
Maya Pirogova
Donetsk Author: Lyubomir Dankov Part 1 | |
Maya Pirogova. Interview for the Bulgarian media. Part 1. | |
|
My name is Maya Yurjevna, or simply Maya. Currently I work as a director of Department of State Information Policy of the Information Policy of Donetsk People Republic. Let me go through the story once again. Actually, the conflict on Donbass territory didn’t start in 2013, it began much earlier. The conflict started with defeat of the Union of Soviet Socialistic Republics in the Cold War, with the fall of the USSR and division of the countries by the so called Belavezha Accords. Why do I think that the Accords marked the beginning of the conflict? Because the way how they were made… how it was scammed, I still think that it was a scam, it was highly unpleasant, very incorrect, unimaginably illegal. It’s another thing that the players of the world politics were completely satisfied with the Belovezha Accords and stopped on it. Since that very time in Ukraine were coming… it’s not… I won’t tell my own impressions, I will tell you about things that can be easily proved, it’s been proved already and the materials are available in the Internet for anyone who wants to see them, who wants to know what was going on. So, since that time different funds have slowly started their work in Ukraine. They started to give grants to Ukraine and life went on and no one would have paid attention to it if it wasn’t 2004th year, when a confrontation arose against the background of regular elections, in fact it was a confrontation between the East and the West. It was the first time when people could see that they are completely different; mentally different people live in the East and in the West. Industrial East reaches for Russia, while West seeks Europe. Everything would have been fine if the situation wasn’t created on purpose, trust me, I studied the question, I know it, if the situation hadn’t been created on purpose and cultivated by the funds and grants… The results of the Orange Revolution are known, it showed its face rather soon, the Orange authorities showed what they were worthy very quickly. It’s another thing that Yanukovich who replaced the Orange authorities also showed his face rather quickly to the Western part of Ukraine, as well as to the Eastern part, to Donbass where he comes from. He proved that he was interested only in money and in power, so the situation turned out to be particularly critical by 2013, when a certain part of the society was taught to be Rusophobic, “Rusophobia” gradually developed with the help of that funds and grunts that I mentioned in the beginning of the interview. It’s a custom to say that everything began when Yanukovich refused to sign the association. In reality the things were a bit different. Ten years ago I was in L’viv and I could see posters hanged around the city, there was a Ukrainian guy with a spear, he was putting his spear through a man dressed in the colours of the Russian flag, through an originally Russian man. As long ago as in 2014 there were talks that it was necessary to place a barbed wire around Donbass, to pour it with concrete. The ideas had already appeared then. And gradually the ideas came into norm in the society that called itself Ukraine. So, Maidan… I’m highlighting, when Yanukovich refused to sign it was just an excuse, they waited an excuse and the excuse was found. But there is a different question, the question is about students who came on Maidan, the students who are called “kids”, the Maidan rather quickly turned into… more precisely it, this Maidan, was taken away from the students by the forces that are in power now, between us, they came with the help of money and they needed the power for money only, actually, you can find everything on the Internet, all the documents, the necessary evidence, even if you open an investigation you’ll find out that everything was tied to money. If you make a financial analysis, after the results of a financial investigation, it’ll be evident, that the force that came to Maidan in January of 2014th was prepared long ago. Why Donbass was keeping silence? People say that Donbass was keeping silence. But unfortunately Donbass is such a region where people work, we simply don’t have time. Do you understand it? I was sitting by TV in January and February at the little moments of free time, when I could sit by TV. I was busy, I worked, I worked as a lawyer, I had a business and so on. We were sitting in front of TV terrified, we couldn’t believe that it could be possible. And, another thing we haven’t noticed the rusophobic sentiments, that were coming, coming and coming to Ukraine. But probably nothing would have happened, it would have been fine if the first decree, yes, I called it a decree, if the first decree of the new power was… let’s speak openly, they have come illegally by an armed coup. If the new government hasn’t started with the anti-Russian sentiments, with anti-Russian laws, a law on the language, the law that prohibited the language… There was a law adopted by Yanukovich on regional languages, the law wasn’t a real resolution of the question about the Russian language for a Russian man. I’m sorry but 40% of Ukrainian citizens are Russians. But it was at least some law, the Russian language had a status of a regional language. So, the first thing that new authorities did was repealing the law on the Russian language. And to say openly, the unrest started at that moment in Donetsk, but actually unrest is a bit wrong word, because Donbass was ready by that time, the anti-Donbass sentiments that were on Maidan, there were too many threats of physical destruction, do you understand that they felt free to say that they would kill us, they would send “trains of friendship”, they would beat us with sticks and so on. They felt free to say it. I was in Maidan in the beginning of January, I spent three days there, I even remember there were 4th, 5th and 6th of January. |
It happened, that the first two days I would simply come and watch, I nearly didn’t speak at all. On the sixth of January was Christmas eve – it’s an orthodox Christmas eve and it wasn’t celebrated on Maidan, it was strange, that so many people would behave so casually on such a glorious big holiday, as if Christ wasn’t born during the night of 6-7 January. It happened that I had to communicate with some people. I didn’t tell anyone that I’m from Donbass, though the way I speak shows my origin. You know, what I’ve heard there played if not a crucial role for me, I wasn’t ready to rise barricades, to fight I wasn’t ready yet. But things that I heard there played a very important role in my attitude towards the events that were taking place on Maidan. I understood that something completely different was being prepared there, that there was no room for better slogans that the students used in December, there was something completely different. Moreover as soon as in January swastika was drawn on the wall. Flags with swastika already appeared in January, then guys clothed in black and wearing balaclavas appeared. I’ll tell you what attitude is possible towards them. What is called “Banderovschina” is an absolute evil for my family by the way as well as for most of the people who live in Central part of Ukraine, in Zaporozhje, Dnepr (Dnepropetrovsk), Charkiv and Odessa. The thing isn’t that Bandera was Judas, no. Bandera was a beast. I’ll tell you. My mom grew up in Western Ukraine. So, she was blond, her skin was very white, she was Russian. So, when she was little, she lived in a village in Western Ukraine and one of the inhabitants came to her and said: “Blondie, go home, because our chlopaky (young men who lived in woods were called “chlopaky”) will come now and they will take you for a wreath”. And what is wreath? Mom says that she had never been so afraid before or after this incident. And wreath was when banderovtzy would take children not only Russian but also Ukrainian children and would tie them with barbed wire to a tree, and leave there until they died. It was called a wreath. People remember and tell stories about it even now. Some attempts to forget it are made, but it’s impossible to forget, it’s our common history. They would tie children to a tree and leave them until they would die. It’s what was called to take children for a wreath. And they were humans! My great grandmother was hiding from banderovtzy during a year. The villagers sent her from one home to another otherwise she would have been killed simply because she was a teacher. This said, you can go to a library and read historic documents if you want to see what banderovzy did. You don’t need any descriptions or fictions, only historical documents. Why we didn’t end them when Khrushchev stopped prosecutions. But their sons, theses rusophobic sentiments they always existed there, that’s why they are such people and we are completely different. So, the war started because… and all the subsequent events began because those who came to power in Kiev didn’t like that we spoke against them. For some reasons people don’t think about the reasons that made people organise a meeting on the first of March, 2014. The people gathered to say that they disagree with the politics of the new authorities. The people came to say that they disagree with the new law on the language. They gathered to state that a coup happened in Kiev, that it was a real coup. I insist that you can find evidence for everything that I’m speaking about. They applied to deputies. We are very law-abiding people, here in Donetsk. We are law-abiding not because we are so good, we honour and respect law historically. The first thing that people from the meeting did, a little group of people gathered together and went to the regional council where the session of deputies of the regional council was taking place. The people appealed to the deputies to speak to Kiev authorities and to state our will and wish our decisions, to say that we wanted the Russian language, we wanted some easy things we wanted to live the way we lived before the events in Kiev. No one really harmed us. We wanted to live by Ukrainian laws, but we want to obey the laws and the things that Ukrainian authorities have been doing are breaking of all the paragraphs and norms of the Constitution, beginning with the coup d’état itself. We haven’t reached anything. No one achieved anything. They didn’t pay any attention to our questions. The people were thrown out, they said: “Cattle, go away”. No one could refer to the people as to cattle before this. Moreover our people, our miners who got used to go to death every day. Do you understand it? There are special people in Donbass, they are miners, every way down to the mines is like a way to a war for them, they don’t know whether they will be killed or not. They are ready for death every day. The mines are very deep here, everything is rather heavy, that’s why they obey the laws, the rules, the safety issues of work and life. That’s why they don’t possess the quality that a lot of people from the other side have, Donetsk miners don’t have cowardice. They are brave people. And what happened then? What was the answer to our demands? The Ukrainian authorities decided that they need to send tanks here. And they drove. At first we stopped them with bare hands. As the answer to our deeds they announced an anti-terroristic operation on the 12th of April. The chosen date was very important for me personally. It was very important for me that they started to bomb on Easter. Easter is probably the most important holiday on the Earth. I think, that it’s the most important holiday in the world. And when they started to bomb on the day when Christ risen, it was so revealing, so strange, so cruel and cynical that I think a lot of people understood that they decided to wipe out all of us. |
|
Maya Pirogova
Donetsk Author: Lyubomir Dankov Part 2 | |
Maya Pirogova. Interview for the Bulgarian media. Part 2. | |
|
I would like to focus on the external influence on Ukraine and on the consequences of the influence. I understand perfectly well that Anglo-Saxon world as well as Europe has always existed and had an impact on our country. The USA joined them since the time when they got on their feet especially owing to the WW2, when they earned enormous money, actually we shouldn’t forget that Hitler was created by America. Don’t you know who sold weapon to Germany? Again a basic analysis of financial documents will show who sold the first weapon to Hitler. Well, it’s not the point. Anglo-Saxon, European and American influence on Ukraine in terms of creating and developing of rusophobia beggars description. I’m sorry actually, but let’s remind ourselves about the countries-members of Warsaw Pact. They didn’t hate Russia so much because it was Russia who freed the world from fascists. Probably some people don’t like it, but it’s a fact, you should understand that Russia suffered the biggest casualties in the WW2, and actually it was Russia not another country who freed the world from Hitler. Whatever it was we lived comparatively peacefully. So, the problem is that Europe throughout its history has always had aggressive policy towards Russia; Europe has always conducted wars against this state. Later the overseas star-striped comrade and the friend of Europe joined Europe against Russia. It could have been possible to understand them if there hadn’t been the wars that they started, the deaths that they caused, the betrayals that they committed. I’ll say you, Ukraine wasn’t chosen by chance. I think that a throughout analysis was made and it showed that there would be a lot of problems with Belarus, while there would be needed significantly less costs and energy to turn Ukraine into a rusophobic state right in front of Russia. So, I’m sure, and I think there is nothing to argue about because only the laziest didn’t speak about it and only babies don’t understand it. Everyone knows about it, everyone speaks about it, but no one does anything against it, because it was profitable for Europe, it was profitable for America. So I think that they focused on the anti-Russian minority for purpose, the little minority was turned into a driving force for Maidan and for the armed confrontation that now exists between Donbass and the other part of Ukraine. Actually, there wouldn’t have been any armed confrontation, any war, any… Do you understand, there wouldn’t have been anything if at least someone had wanted to speak to us in March (of 2014 year – editor). And the fact that no one wanted to speak to us can be explained only in one way– America didn’t need it. When I say America, I mean America and Europe together. But more than that, there were some interesting situations when protestants would gather in the square and speak to Ukrainian authorities, speak to their authorities, to the authorities who came to power by coup d’état, but still the protestants referred to them as to legal authorities. They answered from Kiev, that they would come to speak but no one ever come. It happened again and again. In the middle of March Kiev authorities sent a train of friendship instead of coming for a talk. Buses with football ultras armed with sticks, bats and brass knuckles and other stuff of the kind came. They came here to organise carnage. They came and organised carnage and provocation. You can find it on the Internet, and it was Lord knows what until people gathered. And then, they were naturally chased up to the border of Donbass. I think you’ll find the information about it later, I don’t remember it was either 13th or 15th of March. It was very heavy and one man was killed. So, I believe, that Europe and America are as responsible for the war as Poroshenko and his company. I think that the countries are customers not performers because Americans bombs are falling on us now. Australian and some other Private military companies are fighting against us and you probably… well, I don’t know whether you know this but they are fighting against us. And our soldiers hear American, English, Polish speech on that side rather often. And the worst thing is that they don’t hide it, they consider it being a norm. Do you understand this? Let’s move on. I’ve told about Ukrainian mistakes already. I commented on the mistakes of domestic and foreign policies. But I’ll state one major mistake that was made – Ukraine stopped being an independent state, they allowed such situation, they allowed the situation when, probably after getting in debt bondage, probably after something else they couldn’t make decisions on their own. This said, I understand perfectly well that any state, a little state that doesn’t have nuclear armament and enough gold reserve can’t be completely independent. We live in world society now and we are to reckon with this, that and that. But now when there are two flags, a Ukrainian flag and an American one, over the building of the Security Service of Ukraine – I don’t know whether it can be tolerated and whether Ukraine can be called an independent country. But to take a prime minister, deputy prime-minister or another official from another state and to allow them to conduct the meeting of the Council of Ministers is the highest degree of hypocrisy towards the citizens of Ukraine. This is my opinion on the mistake. Returning to April. In April, in the beginning of April our people understood that any one wasn’t going to do anything. We would gather here with the help of social networks, for example I knew from a network that it was going to be a meeting somewhere and other details. But I’ll remind you that Maidan was also gathered with the help of social networks, another thing that we didn’t held torchlight processions in the city, we didn’t cry “Glory Ukraine”.
|
I’m not sure whether you know or not but the motto “Deutschland über alles” (“Germany above all”) was created by fascists in Germany. Compare it now with “Ukraine above all”, “Glory Ukraine – Glory Heroes” – it was a greeting and a respond of banderovtsy and a man who cries “Glory to Ukraine – Glory Heroes” is a banderovetz, even if he doesn’t understand it. If someone doesn’t understand it, it’s necessary to explain it, that’s all. I’ll never be able to say it earnestly, do you get it? So, Ukraine, especially Ukraine of the last time has chosen West-Ukrainian example of rusophobic mottos and then showed that this rusophobic sentiments are unbelievably cruel. You can search on the Internet, and you’ll see “москаляку на гіляку” (let’s kill Russians), at schools they conducted fairs, they took a battle of compote put a sticker “Blood of Russian babies” on it and presented it to the children. They would bake a cake in a shape of a baby clothed in Russian costume, and then they would cut and chop the cake. They would bake a cake in a shape of Lenin; I can’t believe it, someone had enough money and spared no expense to do it. They baked a cake in a shape of Lenin and ate his ear, then something else. They would gather in a café, in Kiev, in L’viv, in Rovno, in Vinnitza, somewhere else and staged drama “How I choked a Russian”. So, the level of popular rusophobia can’t be compared to popular anti-Semitism of an ordinary fascist, it can’t be compared. It was much worse by emotions, by message. And… how do you think why I’m telling about all this? They posted it on the Internet, they showed it, they made it clear for everyone, they would invent pictures where “vatnyky” and “Colorado beetles” are being killed. (ватник – an offensive way to refer to Russians who are believed not to like Ukraine, originally vatnyk is a kind of warm jacket with cotton wool – вата. The term “colorady” was invented after the black and orange colours of a Ribbon of Saint George – widely recognised military symbol in Russia, one of the main symbols of the victory in WW2 - translator) They would draw pictures and use them as a call to kill all the Russians. Internet was full of such pictures in 2014. How should a normal person react on it? Then the sixth of April took place. Why has it happened? Because it was the last time when our “ambassadors” came to the region State Administration and demanded, they demanded by the time, they had been asking for more than a month, they demanded deputies to decide, whether they will support all the innovations undertaken by Turchinov’s government in March or they would come to its senses and speak for Russian people who live in Donbass. Anything new happened that’s why the people got mad and said, “if you don’t want to listen to us, if we are cattle, Colorado beetles and vatnyky for you then we don’t want to live together with you. Actually it wasn’t a real decision at that time. It was a real decision but it wasn’t final, it wasn’t a separation yet. I don’t know about others but for me the crucial point was when Pravyi Sector burned people in Trade Unions House in Odeessa, and when a division of local police officers was burned in Mariupol on the 9th of May (The Victory over Nazi Germany is celebrated on the 9th of May in Russia and Ukraine - translator). People came, locked the police officers in the building and gave them ultimatum, they wanted the police officers to kill civilians and when the police refused, they were locked and burned and killed. You can check it all in documents. By the way, I’d really like to join the commission that will investigate the crimes one day. I’ll do my best to get there because I know where should we look, I think it’s necessary to check financial documents, I think something can be found there, I’ll also do my best to bring the evidence to Europe. Because we are still no one for Europe, they don’t know who we are and what is going on. I think it’s our and Ukrainian common problem. And then there was a referendum. The decision on referendum was made in April, it was made for one reason only, the people who announced independence in the building of region State Administration, the people who did something to protect Donbass wanted to be sure that the people would support them, and it was a major question. They wanted to be sure and the only way to prove it was a referendum. Unfortunately, the referendum is unrecognised but it doesn’t mean that it’s illegal. If a referendum was hold with the compliance with norm, if it’s a voting and any popular election can be held in any region, then it was legal. There are situations when the whole state should vote and there are situations when regional voting is enough. So, we conducted a regional voting and there was only one question: Do you agree with what is happening in Ukraine and what is happening in Donbass? And actually, the question was, “Do you support those who stated their disagreement with changes in Ukraine and with the things that are happening in Ukraine?” You are familiar with the results of the referendum. Nearly 90% of people said, yes, we agree with you, we agree with those who stood up against the government, we agree with those who don’t like the rusophobic authorities to rule in Donbass. Actually, we consider this day to be the birthday of the republic. And I earnestly believe in it. There were as many people on referendum as never on any elections before this. I went there with my family and I saw the queues. Then I took a taxi and went to other polling stations, I took part in organising of voting once and I knew where the stations were. I had never seen anything of the kind before that day. It means that all the people were against it, all the people in Donbass were outraged with what was going on in Kiev. Isn’t it an indicator? I think, it’s an indicator. |
|
Maya Pirogova
Donetsk Author: Lyubomir Dankov Part 1 | |
Maya Pirogova. Interview for the Bulgarian media. Part 3. | |
|
There is one especially interesting question among your questions. What is the conflict in Donbass like? It can’t be called a conflict, it’s not a conflict. The things that are happening in Donbass are called genocide of the people that someone calls its own people. There is someone’s phrase that explains what is going on for me and for many other people: when government takes its first shot against its own people the people stops to belong to the government. When the first bombs fell on peaceful Slovyansk on the 20th of April, there were only about 60 rebels, they didn’t have any weapon, all the weapon they had were Berdan rifles and bats. The first bombs fell on Slovyansk, as they told on the 60 rebels, but actually the bombs fell on homes of the peaceful citizens. At that moment Ukraine abandoned us. It declared us enemies; it declared all the people of Donbass enemies. By the way it did it earlier, a lot of Ukrainian politics who can’t keep their mouths shut repeatedly said that it’s necessary to kill everyone in Donbass, because all the people here are vatnyky, colorady and separatists. On the 20th of April Ukraine told Donbass “Go away”, it declared us enemies – this is my profound conviction and I think that a lot of people share it. Ukraine proclaimed us being a different state significantly earlier than we did it. I’ll explain why I think so. According to the law, army can’t be involved in anti-terroristic operation. There are special operations forces of Ministry of Interior of Ukraine and of Security Service of Ukraine that are allowed to take part in an event that is called anti-terroristic operation. Ukraine has broken the law and sent troops here, real troops, real army. And once again about finances – weapon and regular army was sent here to conduct an anti-terroristic operation you can check it in financial documents. That’s why according to all the features it’s not an anti-terroristic operation. Let’s move on, how should it be called if there wasn’t any weapon in Donbass in April, but Ukraine sent trains with weapon and armed soldiers here. It isn’t enough that they sent weapon, the state allocated money to bomb peaceful towns in Donbass. Even if the towns were rebellious, even if they protested against the new government in Kiev, but they were peaceful and we have a right to protest. And the state pays for killing of its people. Say me, how is it called? Or I’ll say you, this war is genocide of Ukrainian government against Ukrainian people. Another question is that after the first shot from Ukrainian side we stopped being a part of Ukraine on Ukrainian demand. |
It’s not an anti-terroristic operation, it can’t even be called a civil war, because citizens take part in civil war. And here citizens fight against the regular army of the country. It’s called hybrid, bastards’ war, it’s called genocide of Donbass people. Everyone is tired of saying and proving, it has been proved already – there were no Russian troops. There are some Russian volunteers, Serbian, Check, Americans, Italians, French volunteers, I know some of them personally. I haven’t seen Bulgarians and Polish volunteers. But probably I haven’t seen them because I didn’t have such a task, I didn’t study the question. One of the bravest soldiers is a Serbian man who got through Kosovo and carpet bombing. Volunteers from all over the world come here. There was a man from Australia, he said that he is from Ukraine originally but now he lives in Australia, he came here because he thought that it’s wrong, it’ wrong when children are killed. And one more thing, pay attention, peaceful citizens are dying on this side only, on Ukrainian side they are not dying, if they had been killed Ukraine would have already squealed to the whole world. But it reports regularly, every day that gunmen (which means Donetsk soldiers) fired positions of Armed Forces of Ukraine, but they don’t say anything about killed children and civilians. At the same time about 100 children were killed in Donbass, 10,000 civilians were killed, more than 40,000 buildings, schools, hospitals, houses were damaged or ruined. Ukraine shoots at schools, hospitals, boiler houses, pumping stations, gas and electricity distributing stations. What is it? That was an answer to the question. I believe that Ukraine pursues a policy of genocide against the people of Donbass. I have my own ideas why Ukraine does it and what it was created for, because even the attacks on Donbass after coming to power… I understand that you can cut it out, but it’s my personal opinion. I think that they attacked Donbass and the Eastern part of Ukraine hoping that we’ll rebel and they’ll get a right to bomb us. If we analyse the situation… everything was done so quickly, the war was prepared and started, I don’t have any doubts that the attacks against the Russian speaking people who live in the Eastern part of Ukraine, were made as an open provocation to get right to say to the world “we are simply quelling the rebellious territories”. But the real aim was to kill us. And I believe it. |